I have to admit that over the last several years, I have been torn about whether or not there is a need for Conservatives to leave the Republican party and either form a new party, or join one of the small, already extant, Conservative parties. I have been on both sides of the fence, so to speak, and have been unable to come to a full decision. A recent comment on another post prompted me to again consider the issue. I think it’s time we revisit this debate.
First up, the “leave the Republicrats” side of the debate:
We are tired, as Conservatives, with the Republicans talking Conservative on election day, and then doing the following:
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Growing the government
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Increasing spending
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NOT fighting to shrink government and regulation
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Backing down from the liberals on social issues
We believe that every election cycle, we are subjected to platitudes and empty promises, soon to be broken after the the polls close. We also believe that there is no “conservative way” to do big government. The two are mutually exclusive, and the very idea does not represent what a majority of rank and file Republicans believe. Research shows that they are overwhelmingly Conservative, and history shows that they not being served by the Republican Party.
The issue is that the core of the Republican Party is moderate. Moderates sit in positions of power, and either control and/or contribute large sums of money to the party. Consequently, moderates, at least at the national level, have far too much control. They are not likely to relinquish this control and seem to look at Conservatives with contempt. They compromise and cooperate with the Marxists on the left, and leave us betrayed and angry. They have failed us on so many occasions, there are many willing to leave the party altogether. Still others have “dropped out” entirely, and are waiting for a party that will represent them.
Now, the Republicans in the Congress have been talking a good game lately. They have been standing up to the president and the Democratic majority. This leads me two questions, “Where were you a few years ago when Bush was spending too much and you had the majority? It was your failure to live up to Conservatism that caused us to lose in ’06, and again in ’08. How will you behave if Republicans take back the Congress in ’10?” I’m afraid I already know the answers.
Conservatives do not want to have to chose between Demicans and Republicrats, or socialism, and “socialism lite.” We want a real Conservative choice, a party that will act like Conservatives AFTER the election. We want a party that will REALLY shrink the size and scope of government, and restore it to it’s constitutional limits.
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Now, for the “We must re-take the Republican Party” side:
Breaking away from the Republican Party plays into the hands of the left. With resistance to them split, they can ram whatever socialist legislation they want down our throats. We would not have the power to stop them. We barely do now. They will take over health care, regulate talk radio out of existence, regulate the Internet, raise taxes to impossibly high rates, create a debt that will enslave out children, pass environmental regulations that would kill American industry and jobs, and ruin this great nation, perhaps permanently.
The fact is this; we need a well established and funded party hierarchy to achieve our goals. Starting a new party, even if successful, would take years to accomplish-years that we do not have.
Admittedly, The Republican party is not perfect – we have our internal struggles, but there IS a difference between the parties. Would Reagan have attempted to deceive the people with a single payer system that will eventually ration care and kill Americans? Would either Bush have coddled communist dictators, and undermined democracies in Central America? Would any Republican administration have gone overseas to apologize to the dictators of the world, while at the same time throwing Israel under the bus? Would any Republican administration support a Marxist redistribution scheme concocted in the name of “saving the Earth?” I think not.
We have to realize that even with 40% of the population defining themselves as Conservatives, it’s still not enough to win an election out right. Like it or not, we need the moderates. That being said, we need to remind them that we, as Conservatives, are in the majority. They need to realize that if they do not listen to us, we WILL eventually leave. We need to exert our influence over the party and make sure that the promises made in the campaign are translated into action. We also need to weed the RINO’s out of the party. They are worse than moderates, as they have shown a willingness to betray us anytime doing so would enhance their own personal position. The eight that voted for Cap and Trade need to know that we have not forgotten about them, and we should find Conservatives to run against them in the primaries. If they leave the party, that’s well and good. They should join Arlen Specter, who continues to show that his political philosophy is one of cowardice and convenience.
If given the choice, capturing the Republican Party is the most expedient way to forward our agenda. Creating a new party out of thin air will take resources, and more importantly, time. We have neither of those in abundance, especially when confronted with Obama and his socialist agenda. The danger is simply too great.
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What what I have read or heard from others, this covers some of the major points of this issue. This is a worthy debate to have at this time, especially as the President’s plans are being thwarted. He and his minions will be back. They never give up, but I think we can use the summer recess to consider these “less immediate” issues. I believe we have to start looking to the future and how we can best take our ideals and put them into action. I’m still on the fence with this issue. A year ago, I was all for leaving the party. Now, the risk of failure and the possible consequences of said failure, are making me more cautious. No matter what we do, failure is NOT an option.
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Oh, all right…I’ll stay. But can we at least keep the moderates in cages, and trot them out now and then to show the Zombies they still exist then put them back when it’s time to vote up or down on spending?
Sure, can you guard them, or will we end up with some violations of the Geneva Convention?
A well thought out post. A good number of people only want a two party system. Would we have to have this discussion if the politicians hadn’t perverted the philosophy they were founded upon? You cannot blame the Democrats because we know what they are about. To me the Republicans represent a Greek tragedy; a combination of hubris, fate and human frailty combining to bring about their failure for all to see. The next three years will be an interesting time for them.
Thanks, Liberty Pen. There is great opportunity for the Republicans, if they are willing/able to capitalize on it. The messiah is weakening. If they would capitalize and actually present a “vison” of what Conservatism is, they have a chance.
I absolutely agree.
We had great opportunity for 6 freakin’ years and flubbed it badly, so that we could wind up with this: http://www.thebigfeedblog.com/2009/07/white-folks-greed-runs-world-in-need.html
If the Pubbies use this current crisis as an opportunity to do the right thing vis a vis the Constitution, I’ll be shocked. Truly.
“Creating a new party out of thin air will take resources, and more importantly, time.” So will capturing the Republican Party and setting it down an actual conservative path, and then it will just be hijacked again. Third party and independent is the way to go.
Great post. I too have been having the same debate in my head for a few years now. If we had a parliamentary form of government then I would be all for breaking away from the Republican party. We would have a conservative party (a new party or Libertarian), a moderate/somewhat-conservative party (the Republicans), and a liberal party (the Democrats). More often than not the Conservative party and the moderate/conservative party would be able to form a coalition government and things would be great. However, this is not the case and our current system favors two parties. I think the easier and more logical fight would be to take the Republican party back. McCain was the model ‘moderate’ Republican and he lost, so maybe some of the leaders in the party will wake up to the fact that they have moved to far to the left. If we, as conservatives, left the party it would give the Democrats free reign for decades until the Republicans became non existent and the new conservative party became powerful enough. I consider myself more of a Libertarian, but I think we need to make the Republican party more Libertarian and conservative instead of leaving it altogether. In my opinion, that would have the best outcome for our country.
well thought out argument but with Hussein taking over…how much can we truly dooooooooooo? Gah!:(
I have more faith and confidence in the people who post here than I do in 99% of the politicians. I dare say we have more intelligence as well.
@ Dr. Dave, If they flub this, I’m done with them for good. They have some great opportunities-right now! If they don’t go after the messiah when he’s down, they’re useful idiots!
@ d.eris, Thanks and welcome to the Hideout. I’ve been where you are, even just a few months ago. It’s a tough debate and both sides have good points, that’s why I wrote about it as I did. Your points are spot on. I think if the Republicans fail to present a different option, I’ll be right there with you.
@ Forgotten Liberty, Thanks. You raise good points as well sir. I do have to say that the leadership should have learned from the losses in 06 and not lost in 08, but they didn’t. I hope they learn. If they don’t, and the messiah keeps his majorities, we are screwed.
@ Angel, Welcome! We aren’t dead yet. We have until the ’10 elections, If we don’t get the Congress back, we’re hosed. We’re holding our own right now, considering the circumstances. He hasn’t gotten Cap and Trade, or Obama Care yet, in spite of his majorities in Congress. His poll numbers are dropping like a rock. He’s losing in the polls on issues as well. We still have a shot.
@ Liberty Pen. Thanks to you sir. You, of course, are a part of the intelligent discourse as well.
Rock, meet Hard Place. Hard Place, Rock.
That about sums it up my friend.
My only question is this. How exactly do we “reach out” to the independents and conservative Democrats? I heard Pawlenty saying that and it begs the question, “What the hell is he talking about?” How do we “reach out?” Or is he speaking of pandering? If so, count me out.
What we need is a true conservative candidate that is not afraid to express conservative ideals. Not afraid to stand up to the left. We have let them set the stage for far too long. An eloquent, thoughtful, strong, charismatic leader is just what the Doctor (pardon my pun, Dr. Dave) ordered. Is that too much to ask? It wasn’t in 1980. Let’s hope it isn’t in 2012.
I think we should be reaching out to everyone. NEVER pandering. We can’t compromise our beliefs. We reach out by sharing what we beleive. There is a ton of evidence to support our beliefs, but it’s never in the media.
[...] Is it time for a third party? [...]
I agree that creating a party out of thin air is probably not the way to go… what I do believe is that within the Republican Party we have certain “ideological” factions which overlap and that these groups can be used to overthrow, yes overthrow, the ruling RINO/moderate coalition. Personally, I think that backing the truer conservatives is the best way to go… like for example, right now in FL we have Charlie Crist (BHO apologist) vs Marco Rubio (conservative) running in the Rep primary for the Senate seat to be vacated by Mel Martinez. As expected, the powers-that-be have aligned behind Crist and some expect Rubio to drop out, hopefully this does not happen. If conservatives or libertarians can organize themselves into a unified voting bloc within the party, then GOP incumbents who lean left will be put on notice. A non-ideological (ideology turns the average person off), common-sense message coming from a united conservative ‘sub-party’ might go a very long way in starting the bottom-up revolution that the GOP desperately needs… and that America desperately needs. That’s my take… maybe the Crist-Rubio primary can be a good testing ground…
Sad to say, the demographics of this country are bad and getting worse. By design of course.
Matt, it doesn’t matter when either party has this much power.
Take a look:
http://cbullitt.wordpress.com/2009/08/01/resistance-is-futile-cash-4-clunkers-website-gives-your-computer-to-the-feds/
@NeoRepublica, thanks for commenting, I’ve been enjoying your site for some time. I agree with your assessment, for now. If we’re going to try to “marginalize” the RINOs, we need to do it soon. The primaries are a great place to start.
I’m thinking about coming up with some suggestions for the August Recess. I think it’s a good time to reflect and plan- a half time, if you will. I think we need to try to get conservatives to stick with these Conservative candidates. I know the Tea Party folks are non partisan, but does anyone think that it would be a good idea to get them in on supporting candidates that would fight the agenda in DC?
@ Big Feed, You’re right, of course. And with ACORN “helping” with the census, you can be sure that there will be ABSOLUTELY NO FRAUD WHATSOEVER…right??? I think they’ll count every illegal three times at least!
@ Cbullitt, It’s not over, it’s never over. They’re getting away with it because folks like Beck are the only ones covering it. I say his show yesterday, I just haven’t had time to write on it.
Thanks for reading the blog… but yes I think that the TParty folks are a great way to start, esp since they are non-partisan. Somehow getting conservatives and libertarians to act as a voting bloc (where possible) is the only way to reclaim the party.
[...] A healthy turn of events indeed … But what about the elections in 2010 and 2012? We DO need to win. Right? How else can we stop the government, from ramming "whatever socialist legislation they want down our throats"? [...]
[...] So knowing as we do, that there's no magic in party affiliation, how do we go about electing conservative politicians? Do we go third-party? Matt at the Conservative Hideout 2.0, answered the question this way: Third Party? [...]